Legislature(2001 - 2002)

03/21/2001 01:40 PM Senate HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                    
      SENATE HEALTH, EDUCATION & SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE                                                                    
                         March 21, 2001                                                                                         
                            1:40 p.m.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Lyda Green, Chair                                                                                                       
Senator Jerry Ward                                                                                                              
Senator Bettye Davis                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Loren Leman, Vice Chair                                                                                                 
Senator Gary Wilken                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
BUILDING BRIDGES CAMPAIGN                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Jan McGillivary, Coordinator                                                                                               
     David Roquet, Anchorage                                                                                                    
     Mary Messner, Barrow                                                                                                       
     Tracy Barbee, Anchorage                                                                                                    
     Vic Dull, New Stuyahok                                                                                                     
     Bob Miller, Fairbanks                                                                                                      
     Robert Bower, Kodiak                                                                                                       
     Mr. Doug Feet, Craig                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 01-27, SIDE A                                                                                                            
Number 001                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRWOMAN  LYDA  GREEN  called the  Senate  Health,  Education  &                                                            
Social Services  Committee meeting to  order at 1:40  p.m. Present                                                              
were  Senators  Ward,  Davis  and   Green.    She  asked  Ms.  Jan                                                              
McGillivary  from the  Building Bridges  Campaign  to address  the                                                              
committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
                    BUILDING BRIDGES CAMPAIGN                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. JAN MCGILLIVARY  informed committee members  that the Building                                                              
Bridges Campaign  is holding its  eighth annual fly-in  to Juneau.                                                              
Building Bridges  is a  group of  mental health consumers,  family                                                              
members, providers  and advocates  working to continually  improve                                                              
community  based services.   She informed  committee members  that                                                              
the presenters would introduce themselves.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DAVID  ROQUET,   a  mental  health  consumer,   informed  the                                                              
committee that  a recent government  survey has found one  in four                                                              
Americans  to have  a  mental illness.    Mental  illness must  be                                                              
treated like any  other illness. He is the operations  manager for                                                              
the Alaska  Mental Health  Consumer  Web (AkMHCW).   With a  state                                                              
grant,  AkMHCW is  putting consumers  to work  using a  clubhouse-                                                              
setting run by  and for consumers. AkMHCW helps  consumers work on                                                              
their choices to  receive services in their communities.   Many of                                                              
its clients  are homeless  people who are  running away  from "the                                                              
system" because of  its high level of coerciveness.   Some clients                                                              
have been  in and out  of jail and  referred by the  mental health                                                              
court;  others  have  been in  the  Alaska  Psychiatric  Institute                                                              
(API).   Although the  AkMHCW does  not provide treatment,  AkMHCW                                                              
staff has  dealt with  mental illness and  is trusted  by clients.                                                              
AkMHCW has found  it very important to coordinate  with all of the                                                              
agencies in Anchorage.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. ROQUET  said that API serves a  vital need; it is  a place for                                                              
people to go who  need help.  He urged legislators  to get the API                                                              
project "off the  table" so that a new facility can  be built.  He                                                              
pointed out that  in conjunction with API, the  community outreach                                                              
programs work.   AkMHCW has numbers to prove that  it keeps people                                                              
out of  API because  they have somewhere  else to  go.   AkMHCW is                                                              
open 8 a.m. to  5 p.m., seven days per week and  will soon be open                                                              
until 8 p.m.   AkMHCW has heard  from people around the  state who                                                              
want a similar organization in their locales.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ROQUET said  the  website name  is  AkMHCW.org. AkMHCW  helps                                                              
people find  housing, jobs and  choose health care  professionals.                                                              
He noted  that AkMHCW  has found  consumers to  be resourceful  if                                                              
they are given choices.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. MARY  MESSNER, a  Public Health  nurse from  Barrow, read  the                                                              
following testimony.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     My name  is Mary Messner.   My home has been  Barrow for                                                                   
     about nine years.  I've worked  most of these years as a                                                                   
     public  health  nurse  specializing   in  children  with                                                                   
     special needs.   I am also a consumer and  the mother of                                                                   
     a consumer.   I'm here today  because of the  great need                                                                   
     in our state for services for  children and adolescents.                                                                   
     Undiagnosed brain disorders  in children and adolescents                                                                   
     are common.   Inadequate sub-optimal treatment  of child                                                                   
     and adolescent  mental health disorders is  also common.                                                                   
     Studies show  that some 60  percent or more  of children                                                                   
     in the juvenile  justice system suffer  from undiagnosed                                                                   
     brain disorders.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     For a person with bipolar disorder,  also known as manic                                                                   
     depression, the  average length of time it  takes to get                                                                   
     correctly  diagnosed  and treated,  from  the time  they                                                                   
     begin  to seek  help, is eight  years.   As the  Surgeon                                                                   
     General has  informed us, most  children in  our schools                                                                   
     with   serious   emotional  disturbance,   i.e.,   brain                                                                   
     disorders, do not get identified  until after age 10, if                                                                   
     then.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     So  what do  we  need?   As a  state,  we are  abysmally                                                                   
     behind  in  school-based health  clinic  services  which                                                                   
     provide  health care,  including mental  health care  by                                                                   
     child   and   adolescent   specialized   mental   health                                                                   
     clinicians in collaboration  with other specialists like                                                                   
     child psychiatrists, developmental  pediatricians, child                                                                   
     psychologists.  We  have a  wonderful  statewide  public                                                                   
     health  nursing   system,  which  reaches  all   of  the                                                                   
     villages  in our  state.   We need  to integrate  mental                                                                   
     health  services   into  the  system  in  the   form  of                                                                   
     psychiatric    nurse    practitioners,     which    have                                                                   
     prescriptive  authority by virtue  of their  specialized                                                                   
     education  and  licensure.    We  need  to  aggressively                                                                   
     recruit child  and adolescent specialized  mental health                                                                   
     providers, offering incentives  such as 100 percent loan                                                                   
     repayment.  We need to grow our own.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     We  also need  legislation  that prevents  schools  from                                                                   
     labeling  kids with services  excluding diagnoses,  such                                                                   
     as conduct  disorder, without  referring for a  complete                                                                   
     diagnostic  work-up   by  a  child  psychologist   or  a                                                                   
     developmental  pediatrician.   Thank you  for your  time                                                                   
     today.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. MESSNER  explained that  in the  past, she  has worked  with a                                                              
child  psychiatrist  and  a  developmental  pediatrician  and  has                                                              
advocated  in schools  for the needs  of kids  with mental  health                                                              
diagnoses as  diverse as attention  disorder or minor  depression.                                                              
Conduct  disorder is  an educational  diagnosis made  by a  school                                                              
psychologist  who excludes  the child  from receiving  specialized                                                              
services because  the child is  deemed to be socially  maladjusted                                                              
rather than mentally ill or needing help.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN  asked if  such a diagnosis  is made by  a school                                                              
psychologist who observes a student  in a classroom and that it is                                                              
not a medical term.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MESSNER said  the  educational diagnosis  is  not a  clinical                                                              
diagnosis.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN asked Ms. Messner how pervasive the problem is.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 738                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. MESSNER  said she can  only speak  for the school  district in                                                              
which she lives, but she believes the problem is nationwide.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRWOMAN  GREEN asked  Ms. Messner what  the legal  implications                                                              
are  for school  districts and  states and  whether enrollment  is                                                              
ever forbidden.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. MESSNER  said their  enrollment, in  her experience,  is often                                                              
prevented by a  series of continuous suspensions and  they have no                                                              
legal  protection.    These  students   are  labeled  as  "conduct                                                              
disordered," which equates to burgeoning  criminal.  The danger is                                                              
that  many disorders  include behaviors  that could  be viewed  as                                                              
conduct disorders.   For example,  a person with  untreated manic-                                                              
depression can be very agitated.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN  asked Ms. Messner  if she feels a  parent should                                                              
get further testing and diagnoses  for his or her child through an                                                              
independent  psychologist  and  present that  information  to  the                                                              
school.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. MESSNER  said the law  says that  anyone in the  community who                                                              
sees  a child  as  having  difficulties,  which may  impair  their                                                              
ability to learn in school, should  inform the school.  The school                                                              
is then mandated to evaluate the child.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN asked if an appeal process exists.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. MESSNER  said parents can  request an independent  educational                                                              
evaluation.  The  Department  of   Education's  approved  list  of                                                              
specialists  contains  the  names  of people  connected  with  the                                                              
system, so that  can present problems when seeking  an independent                                                              
educational evaluation.   Parents can  also request a  hearing but                                                              
they would  need an  attorney to  have any  hope of prevailing  at                                                              
that hearing.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1002                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRWOMAN  GREEN asked if  the root  of the  problem is  with the                                                              
Department  of Education, the  state board  of education,  or with                                                              
the statutory definition of how children are identified.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. MESSNER  said she is very  familiar with the  Individuals with                                                              
Disabilities  Education  Act (IDEA)  and is  a  member of  several                                                              
disability  advocacy groups.    She believes  the  problem is  not                                                              
statutory.    She informed  the  committee  that on  February  28,                                                              
[U.S.] Senator Dan  Burton held hearings on the  implementation of                                                              
IDEA.   Senator Burton, as the  grandparent of an  autistic child,                                                              
has  been shocked  at  his grandchild's  treatment  by the  school                                                              
system.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WARD asked  Ms.  Messner to  elaborate  on her  statement                                                              
about offering 100 percent student loan forgiveness.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. MESSNER  said she  raised the  idea as  a way to  aggressively                                                              
attract  and "grow  our  own" providers.    She  pointed out  that                                                              
another issue for Alaska is cultural competence.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRWOMAN  GREEN thanked  Ms. Messner  and called  Ms. Barbee  to                                                              
testify.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1142                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  TRACY  BARBEE,  an  Anchorage   parent,  read  the  following                                                              
testimony.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     My  husband and  I struggled  for many  years trying  to                                                                   
     find the appropriate help for  our 14-year old bi-polar,                                                                   
     ADHD,  learning disabled  son.   Our  biggest  struggles                                                                   
     have  regarded  the  school district  and  the  medical,                                                                   
     psychiatric    and   therapy    professions.   In    our                                                                   
     circumstance,  and in  many others  I'm aware of,  we've                                                                   
     found the  schools at a loss  in their attempts  to deal                                                                   
     with  mental health  issues in  children.   Many of  the                                                                   
     districts seem  to be genuinely concerned,  however most                                                                   
     lack the  knowledge and  experience necessary to  handle                                                                   
     children like our son.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Similarly, we have found many  of the mental health care                                                                   
     professionals  in  Anchorage  to  fall  short  on  their                                                                   
     ability  to appropriately diagnosis  and treat  children                                                                   
     with   mental  health  issues.     Unfortunately,   many                                                                   
     families  like  ours  that have  to  educate  themselves                                                                   
     essentially  diagnosed their  own children, educate  the                                                                   
     professionals   and   then  completely   oversee   their                                                                   
     children's medication  issues.  Over the course  of five                                                                   
     years,  our  son was  hospitalized  twice,  misdiagnosed                                                                   
     many  times   over,  essentially  kicked  out   of  four                                                                   
     schools, and eventually was  recommended by an Anchorage                                                                   
     psychiatrist to be placed in  a long term care facility.                                                                   
     Not willing  to do that, we  took him outside  of Alaska                                                                   
     to Johns Hopkins  in Baltimore and finally  received the                                                                   
     appropriate  diagnosis   of  bi-polar  disorder.   After                                                                   
     getting  him  up to  therapeutic  levels on  the  proper                                                                   
     medications, we have been able  to move forward with his                                                                   
     education and  growth, and he is currently  a successful                                                                   
     freshman  at Service High  School.  He  is still  not an                                                                   
     easy child but loving and manageable.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     My son attended the Walley (ph)  Center in Anchorage for                                                                   
     1½ years.  This is  a school  in Anchorage for  children                                                                   
     with  severe emotional  and behavioral  issues.   During                                                                   
     that time, I  volunteered at the school and  saw so many                                                                   
     children  that obviously had  undiagnosed mental  health                                                                   
     issues.   We seriously need  an early detection  program                                                                   
     for these children.   Without it, they will  continue to                                                                   
     be lost to drugs, jails, and the streets.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     One method  of testing that  is already being used  in a                                                                   
     Juneau teen center is the [National  Institute of Mental                                                                   
     Health]  NIMH  disk.    It's  an  easily  used  computer                                                                   
     questionnaire  that  is  also cost  effective.    Please                                                                   
     implement  this  or  another suitable  method  of  early                                                                   
     childhood  testing  and  detection.    So  many  of  our                                                                   
     children are counting on us.   A diagnostic such as this                                                                   
     could  have made  a tremendous  difference  in my  son's                                                                   
     formative years.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRWOMAN  GREEN asked  Ms. Barbee  if  the NIMH  disk offers  an                                                              
introductory identification to be followed up with other tools.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BARBEE  said  she has  seen  the  written  diagnostic,  which                                                              
consists of about 40 questions.   It is used as an initial screen.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRWOMAN  GREEN  asked  if the  NIMH  disk  is  also used  in  a                                                              
physician's office.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. BARBEE said  she has seen many checklists given  to her son by                                                              
doctors similar to the NIMH questionnaire.   To her understanding,                                                              
the NIMH questionnaire is a particularly good diagnostic.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN  asked Ms. Barbee if  she is aware of  any budget                                                              
requests for the NIMH program.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. JAN  GUERTIN, a Juneau resident,  said the NIMH  assessment is                                                              
given at  the Juneau  Douglas High  school.   The high school  has                                                              
been using it for about one year  in conjunction with a university                                                              
in New  York.   About 40  youth have used  it.   It has  been well                                                              
received by the Juneau school board.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WARD asked Ms. Barbee what  assessment was used during her                                                              
son's diagnosis.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.   BARBEE  explained   that  after   six   years  of   doctors,                                                              
psychiatrists,    psychologists,    and   behavior    modification                                                              
techniques, she took  him to Johns Hopkins when he  was 11 after a                                                              
local psychiatrist  recommended that he  be placed in  a long-term                                                              
care facility.  Her son had been misdiagnosed for years.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WARD asked what tests he was given.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. BARBEE  said her son saw  a neurologist and a  psychiatrist at                                                              
Johns   Hopkins.  She   pointed   out  that   the  mental   health                                                              
professionals in Alaska  are a little bit behind  on understanding                                                              
that  children  can  be  diagnosed   with  certain  mental  health                                                              
disorders. The  Johns Hopkins psychiatrist recognized  the bipolar                                                              
disorder right away.   Ten years ago, children  were not diagnosed                                                              
with certain  mental illnesses until the  age of 16.   Now bipolar                                                              
disorder can be diagnosed at age 5.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. GUERTIN  indicated that  the NIMH  assessment uses  the DSM-IV                                                              
diagnoses.   She  noted that  school districts  cannot handle  the                                                              
entire caseload because of funding  shortages so students may have                                                              
to go outside of the school to private counselors to get help.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN  stated that one  of the things  that legislators                                                              
have  had  to   look  at  is  how  each  of   the  programs  under                                                              
consideration by  the legislature impacts the overall  picture, be                                                              
it Medicaid or  something else.  In addition,  legislators have to                                                              
look at whether  there is too  great an expectation on  the system                                                              
because if services increase exponentially,  cutbacks will have to                                                              
occur.  She said  she believes the legislature has  to rely on the                                                              
expectation that  parents have  a role in  the child's life.   She                                                              
also noted that diagnoses have become  more fine tuned and are not                                                              
quite as categorized as they used to be.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. GUERTIN said she has a child  who was diagnosed with autism at                                                              
age 5 and  at age 14 he  has been classified as  having Asperger's                                                              
Syndrome.  Like most everything,  it is a spectrum disorder so the                                                              
degree  with  which it  manifests  itself  in a  child's  behavior                                                              
differs  from child  to  child.   She  stated  that IDEA  requires                                                              
behavioral plans for  children so that they are not  kicked out of                                                              
school and  can receive  an appropriate education.   She  does not                                                              
believe  it  is  working  in Alaska  although  the  situation  has                                                              
improved over the last 10 years.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN thanked Ms. Guertin.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VIC  DULL,  a mental  health  counselor  from  New  Stuyahok,                                                              
discussed the  lack of village-based  counselors in  rural Alaska.                                                              
Of  the  33  villages  served  by  the  Bristol  Bay  Area  Health                                                              
Corporation,  only seven  have  village-based  counselors.   These                                                              
counselors  serve  as  advocates  who  do  prevention  activities,                                                              
crisis intervention, educate families,  and assist other agencies,                                                              
such as DFYS.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN asked Mr. Dull who he is employed by.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DULL said  he is  employed  by the  Bristol  Bay Area  Health                                                              
Corporation,  a  non-profit  organization.     He  explained  that                                                              
Dillingham has a  community mental health center,  which has seven                                                              
counselors  who  travel   to  villages  in  Bristol   Bay.    They                                                              
specialize in  youth issues and anger  management.  A total  of 14                                                              
counselors travel  every two or three months,  weather permitting.                                                              
That  schedule  does  not  adequately   serve  the  needs  of  the                                                              
communities,  particularly when  a crisis  occurs. Each  community                                                              
has specific needs, and it takes  someone who is involved with the                                                              
community to  understand those needs.   He asked the  committee to                                                              
consider funding more counseling positions for rural Alaska.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRWOMAN  GREEN asked how  large the  area is  that Mr.  Dull is                                                              
referring to and how many people would be served.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DULL  said  the  Southwest  area  of  Alaska  stretches  from                                                              
Goodnews  Bay  to Pedro  Bay  down  to the  Peninsula  toward  Pt.                                                              
Heiden.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. MCGILLIVARY said it is as large as the state of Ohio.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DULL  said the  area  he  and another  counselor  serve  (the                                                              
Nushagak River) has three main villages with about 800 people.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WARD asked  Mr. Dull what role he sees  for people without                                                              
formal education  but a  desire to become  a provider who  live in                                                              
the community and how the state can  provide a mechanism to enable                                                              
those people to practice.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DULL said  the University  of  Alaska Fairbanks  has a  Rural                                                              
Human Services  Program in which  a traditional council  chooses a                                                              
person from the  community who, if accepted, attends  a three-week                                                              
training program in Fairbanks.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WARD asked how many people have attended that program.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. DULL said of the seven counselors  he spoke of, he is the only                                                              
one who hasn't.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WARD  asked if that program  is working in other  areas of                                                              
the state.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. DULL  thought people from the  Nome area have  participated in                                                              
that program.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRWOMAN  GREEN  asked whether  any  agency employees,  such  as                                                              
village public safety officers (VPSO), have been cross-trained.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. DULL said  he is not aware  of any.  He explained  that in his                                                              
community, the VPSO does some of the interventions.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN assumed they get some training.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. DULL  said he  does not  think they  do; the local  counselors                                                              
give presentations  to the State Troopers about  conditions in the                                                              
villages.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN thanked Mr. Dull.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. ROBERT  BOWERS told the committee  he is from Kodiak.   He was                                                              
diagnosed with mental illness three  years ago and has sought help                                                              
three times.  He is 19.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN asked if he was  in school when he was diagnosed.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOWERS  said he  was, but  he was  moving a  lot at the  time.                                                              
Regarding  the  construction  of   a  new  building  for  API,  he                                                              
suggested  that  smaller  units   be  built  in  communities  like                                                              
Dillingham so that people do not have to travel to Anchorage.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRWOMAN GREEN  said that moving  to a large city  for treatment                                                              
may compound the problem.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BOB MILLER  informed  the committee  that  he  was born  with                                                              
cerebral palsy  and has been  diagnosed with many  other disorders                                                              
and illnesses.  He informed committee  members that dual diagnosis                                                              
is common  among people  with mental  illness.   He believes  that                                                              
many  people with  mental illness  self-medicate  with alcohol  or                                                              
other  drugs.   He  is  on the  board  of directors  at  Fairbanks                                                              
Community  Mental Health  and is  the  vice president  of NAMI  in                                                              
Fairbanks.  He has been studying  social work at the University of                                                              
Alaska Fairbanks.  He encouraged  committee members to provide for                                                              
early intervention to avoid larger problems.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MILLER  said that treatment services  for the mentally  ill in                                                              
Fairbanks  have been  inconsistent.  Very  few psychiatrists  have                                                              
spent more  than a year in  Fairbanks.  He asked  that legislators                                                              
consider student  loan forgiveness  for social workers  and mental                                                              
health providers  to encourage  people to  stay.  Regarding  drugs                                                              
and alcohol,  he referred  to a  recent article  in Newsweek  that                                                              
described   alcoholism  as   a  brain  disorder   rather   than  a                                                              
personality or behavioral problem.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MCGILLIVARY  informed  committee members  that  the  Building                                                              
Bridges  Campaign has  focused on  rural  issues this  year.   She                                                              
asked that Doug Veet present to the committee.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 01-27, SIDE B                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DOUG VEET,  representing the  Rural  Mental Health  Providers                                                              
Association, said  one of the significant problems  with the Rural                                                              
Human  Services Program,  discussed  by Mr.  Dull,  is that  those                                                              
services  are  not  recognized  by  Medicaid  so  development  and                                                              
expansion of  that program always  comes out of local  budgets and                                                              
general funds.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRWOMAN  GREEN  asked  if those  services  are  not  recognized                                                              
because the service providers are not credentialed.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  VEET said  that  is  correct.   He  explained  that having  a                                                              
credentialed supervisor  does not qualify the service  either.  He                                                              
said the second  thing about those service providers  is that they                                                              
are just as subject to job stress  as other providers and, working                                                              
in their  own community  and having no  escape becomes  a problem.                                                              
He believes that  having only one provider in  each community will                                                              
not work because those providers would be overwhelmed.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WARD asked  how many of the 12 regional  non-profit Native                                                              
organizations have such a program.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. VEET said he would provide that number at a later date.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRWOMAN  GREEN   thanked  all  presenters  and   adjourned  the                                                              
meeting.                                                                                                                        

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